Comments on: Refusing To Give A Standardized Test http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/ Theory is nice, but we are working in practice... Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:28:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jenorr http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-403 Jenorr Sun, 11 May 2008 17:29:38 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-403 I'm one of those who believe that portfolios are more authentic and accurate than a once-a-year standardized test. However, NCLB has been iffy on them and they are a huge amount of work. We use portfolios for our most limited English speakers rather than have them take the reading test. It requires a ton of hours from our teachers and we have a half time person who is focused completely on testing. The scoring is also fairly insane. In my opinion, we should create more authentic testing that is administered to 10% of students each year. You would never know if it would be your class or school so you would have to be prepared but we could implement testing that is more expensive if it were not given to all kids. (This makes sense at the elementary level where scores are not tied to children's grades or promotion. At the high school level it might be different.) I’m one of those who believe that portfolios are more authentic and accurate than a once-a-year standardized test. However, NCLB has been iffy on them and they are a huge amount of work. We use portfolios for our most limited English speakers rather than have them take the reading test. It requires a ton of hours from our teachers and we have a half time person who is focused completely on testing. The scoring is also fairly insane.

In my opinion, we should create more authentic testing that is administered to 10% of students each year. You would never know if it would be your class or school so you would have to be prepared but we could implement testing that is more expensive if it were not given to all kids. (This makes sense at the elementary level where scores are not tied to children’s grades or promotion. At the high school level it might be different.)

]]> By: alicemercer http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-402 alicemercer Sun, 11 May 2008 14:42:15 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-402 Jason You must be at the high school level doing CASHEE if the students have multiple chances because at every other level each test is administered once a year. The tests are generally broken down into sections, and students have to finish each section in a sitting. If they have IEPs it may be broken down more because they are untimed, but you get the idea, it's once a year, or bust (sometimes, bust for some kids). Portfolios have been tried and proposed for NCLB compliance out of Nebraska, but DOE said "nyet". I think you would want to monitor the process, and audit it, but it seems a more fruitful direction to pursue then where we have been. Jason
You must be at the high school level doing CASHEE if the students have multiple chances because at every other level each test is administered once a year. The tests are generally broken down into sections, and students have to finish each section in a sitting. If they have IEPs it may be broken down more because they are untimed, but you get the idea, it’s once a year, or bust (sometimes, bust for some kids).

Portfolios have been tried and proposed for NCLB compliance out of Nebraska, but DOE said “nyet”. I think you would want to monitor the process, and audit it, but it seems a more fruitful direction to pursue then where we have been.

]]> By: Jason http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-401 Jason Sun, 11 May 2008 06:51:27 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-401 Wow guys, thanks for all the information here. I'm a new teacher... actually, I'm still a student teacher... I think that assessment and accountability are important aspects of this testing that needs to be kept, but there are obviously problems with the system. I do think though, that it is better than no accountability. I'd love to see a better system put into place, but there are flaws in every system. Portfolios are a great idea, but who is going to grade them and make sure they meet the standards? that is a lot of work. High stakes testing sucks. If the student has a bad day... But, at least from what I've seen, they get multiple chances to pass the test. The tests that we have now can easily be skewed, as teachers help students to get the correct answers. Having test administrators who are unbiased is expensive. Where would the funding come from. I'm very interested in this topic. I think it needs to be fixed, but how? Wow guys, thanks for all the information here. I’m a new teacher… actually, I’m still a student teacher… I think that assessment and accountability are important aspects of this testing that needs to be kept, but there are obviously problems with the system. I do think though, that it is better than no accountability.

I’d love to see a better system put into place, but there are flaws in every system. Portfolios are a great idea, but who is going to grade them and make sure they meet the standards? that is a lot of work. High stakes testing sucks. If the student has a bad day… But, at least from what I’ve seen, they get multiple chances to pass the test.

The tests that we have now can easily be skewed, as teachers help students to get the correct answers. Having test administrators who are unbiased is expensive. Where would the funding come from.

I’m very interested in this topic. I think it needs to be fixed, but how?

]]> By: Browse the 170th Carnival of Education at www.matthewktabor.com : Education for the Aughts - American School Issues and Analysis http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-400 Browse the 170th Carnival of Education at www.matthewktabor.com : Education for the Aughts - American School Issues and Analysis Wed, 07 May 2008 13:34:18 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-400 [...] Ferlazzo at InPractice can’t quite decide whether WASL-weasel Carl Chew is an American hero. He thinks that Chew’s actions won’t have any impact and that Chew is likely an [...] [...] Ferlazzo at InPractice can’t quite decide whether WASL-weasel Carl Chew is an American hero. He thinks that Chew’s actions won’t have any impact and that Chew is likely an [...]

]]> By: alicemercer http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-397 alicemercer Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:24:37 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-397 Hey, just in time, Eduwonkette (fast becoming a favorite of mine) has written about the accountability conundrum, and how the public (teachers, policy makers) prefer metrics (like test scores, to more authentic assessment (like portfolios). Check it out. Hey, just in time, Eduwonkette (fast becoming a favorite of mine) has written about the accountability conundrum, and how the public (teachers, policy makers) prefer metrics (like test scores, to more authentic assessment (like portfolios). Check it out.

]]> By: Larry Ferlazzo http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-395 Larry Ferlazzo Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:52:11 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-395 Brian, Ric, Bill, Alice, Steven, and J.M., Thanks for expanding the conversation. The thought that the type of people that teaching attracts affects their willingness to push for change is an intriguing one. I have to reflect on that more, and do some analysis of how teachers compare to others whom I have been engaged with in my community organizing career. Also, in addition to finding the people we agree with and begin working with them, I think in order to be effective we also need to consider who the leaders or potential leaders are we want to work with and develop plans on how to build relationships with them and connect to their self-interests. If we don't do that, we end up just getting who we can get instead of getting who we want. Larry Brian, Ric, Bill, Alice, Steven, and J.M.,

Thanks for expanding the conversation.

The thought that the type of people that teaching attracts affects their willingness to push for change is an intriguing one. I have to reflect on that more, and do some analysis of how teachers compare to others whom I have been engaged with in my community organizing career.

Also, in addition to finding the people we agree with and begin working with them, I think in order to be effective we also need to consider who the leaders or potential leaders are we want to work with and develop plans on how to build relationships with them and connect to their self-interests. If we don’t do that, we end up just getting who we can get instead of getting who we want.

Larry

]]> By: J.M. Holland http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-394 J.M. Holland Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:57:01 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-394 Great points. I appreciate your focus on community action and joint action. In my post on Chew I mention Rosa Parks, (I am a preschool teacher), I always make sure to teach my students that Rosa went to special training to learn civil disobedience strategies and that she was "waiting" for this time to come because she was ready. Although her stand was taken alone it was not taken independently. Great points. I appreciate your focus on community action and joint action. In my post on Chew I mention Rosa Parks, (I am a preschool teacher), I always make sure to teach my students that Rosa went to special training to learn civil disobedience strategies and that she was “waiting” for this time to come because she was ready. Although her stand was taken alone it was not taken independently.

]]> By: Steven Kimmi http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-393 Steven Kimmi Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:25:08 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-393 Bill wrote: None of those characteristics are inherently bad, but they can lead to a “blindness” towards the need to change or to adapt. We embrace what was and protect it rather than thinking differently about what could be because we: 1. Succeeded in the “system” as it’s currently structured. 2. Poured our absolute hearts and souls into the work we’re doing. Does this statement remind anyone of something else (some of) our teaching work force is struggling to grasp? I think the ways we are working to overcome the absence of technology in some classrooms is the way we have to go about this problem. Like Alice has stated, find the people you agree with and start networking. However, I don't think walking out will ever be the answer. With limited knowledge of this incident I think about the students, who were going to be tested one way or another. Did this teacher make the right choice, further raising the stress levels of students, having them test with substitutes? Did anything this teacher do set them up for success? As educators I think we have the job of fostering an environment that sets our students up for success no matter what the tools for measuring that success might be. Would Mr. Chew have done this for any other assessment he might not agree with? What about district level CRAs? Standing up for what you believe in is one thing, jeopardizing the success of an entire class is quite another. Bill wrote:

None of those characteristics are inherently bad, but they can lead to a “blindness” towards the need to change or to adapt. We embrace what was and protect it rather than thinking differently about what could be because we:

1. Succeeded in the “system” as it’s currently structured.
2. Poured our absolute hearts and souls into the work we’re doing.

Does this statement remind anyone of something else (some of) our teaching work force is struggling to grasp? I think the ways we are working to overcome the absence of technology in some classrooms is the way we have to go about this problem. Like Alice has stated, find the people you agree with and start networking.

However, I don’t think walking out will ever be the answer. With limited knowledge of this incident I think about the students, who were going to be tested one way or another. Did this teacher make the right choice, further raising the stress levels of students, having them test with substitutes? Did anything this teacher do set them up for success?

As educators I think we have the job of fostering an environment that sets our students up for success no matter what the tools for measuring that success might be. Would Mr. Chew have done this for any other assessment he might not agree with? What about district level CRAs?

Standing up for what you believe in is one thing, jeopardizing the success of an entire class is quite another.

]]> By: alicemercer http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-392 alicemercer Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:24:54 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-392 You will not see the unions coming out against NCLB/ESEA for one reason, it's a loser. It makes the unions (and teachers) look like they don't give a darn if kids learn. So when recent renegotiations for ESEA came up, the argument was that single test was not an adequate measure, and that there needed to be full funding. I generally agree with this point of view, because I think we do need to attempt to assess what we are doing, but doing it with one high-stakes test seems ridiculous. Around the same time ESEA renegotiations were starting, Nebraska's proposal to use a portfolio based assessment system was rejected by DOE. Then Democrats in Congress blinked in the face of changing ESEA, so we are where we started, and getting nowhere fast. My suggestion is find a group that you agree with (no testing, some testing, portfolio-based assessment, pro-national standards) and work with them. We all agree that what is in place now sucks, now we all need to figure out what we want to take it's place. You will not see the unions coming out against NCLB/ESEA for one reason, it’s a loser. It makes the unions (and teachers) look like they don’t give a darn if kids learn. So when recent renegotiations for ESEA came up, the argument was that single test was not an adequate measure, and that there needed to be full funding. I generally agree with this point of view, because I think we do need to attempt to assess what we are doing, but doing it with one high-stakes test seems ridiculous.

Around the same time ESEA renegotiations were starting, Nebraska’s proposal to use a portfolio based assessment system was rejected by DOE. Then Democrats in Congress blinked in the face of changing ESEA, so we are where we started, and getting nowhere fast. My suggestion is find a group that you agree with (no testing, some testing, portfolio-based assessment, pro-national standards) and work with them. We all agree that what is in place now sucks, now we all need to figure out what we want to take it’s place.

]]> By: Bill Ferriter http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-391 Bill Ferriter Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:26:22 +0000 http://inpractice.edublogs.org/2008/04/27/refusing-to-give-a-standardized-test/#comment-391 Brian wrote: Unfortunately, teachers (especially elementary teachers who are expected to be more nurturing overall) tend to be people that went into their profession to do good by society Another interesting strand to this conversation to be sure, Brian..... A few years back, I read a bit on the types of people drawn to teaching and another defining/joining characteristic is that they tend to be people who value traditions. Change is not something that they necessarily seek because they respect the patterns of behavior that have formed the foundations of the organization. We also take great pride in what we do---and rightfully so because we pour our hearts into it. If any cliche about education is undeniable, it's that we didn't get into this profession for the $$$. We got into it because we wanted to help kids....and that's what we do for long hours and low pay every day. None of those characteristics are inherently bad, but they can lead to a "blindness" towards the need to change or to adapt. We embrace what was and protect it rather than thinking differently about what could be because we: 1. Succeeded in the "system" as it's currently structured. 2. Poured our absolute hearts and souls into the work we're doing. The more this conversation runs through my mind, the more interesting it becomes. I'm really enjoying the thought that the personalities of people drawn to teaching really influences the way we're perceived and our actions when challenged. Bill Brian wrote:
Unfortunately, teachers (especially elementary teachers who are expected to be more nurturing overall) tend to be people that went into their profession to do good by society

Another interesting strand to this conversation to be sure, Brian…..

A few years back, I read a bit on the types of people drawn to teaching and another defining/joining characteristic is that they tend to be people who value traditions. Change is not something that they necessarily seek because they respect the patterns of behavior that have formed the foundations of the organization.

We also take great pride in what we do—and rightfully so because we pour our hearts into it. If any cliche about education is undeniable, it’s that we didn’t get into this profession for the $$$. We got into it because we wanted to help kids….and that’s what we do for long hours and low pay every day.

None of those characteristics are inherently bad, but they can lead to a “blindness” towards the need to change or to adapt. We embrace what was and protect it rather than thinking differently about what could be because we:

1. Succeeded in the “system” as it’s currently structured.
2. Poured our absolute hearts and souls into the work we’re doing.

The more this conversation runs through my mind, the more interesting it becomes. I’m really enjoying the thought that the personalities of people drawn to teaching really influences the way we’re perceived and our actions when challenged.

Bill

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